Planning permission is being sought to redevelop a market garden site in Hoylake to an outdoor activity centre.
Owners of the H L Langley Market Gardens site on fields over the railway line at Sandringham Avenue are seeking permission to convert the site to an outdoor activity centre that will include paintball. Planning documents are available here. The site is behind Manor Road Station and adjacent to the access path to the Hoylake Allotments.
Access and exit routes appear to use level crossings at Carlton Lane and Sandringham Avenue. As Network Rail is currently discussing the closure of the Sandringham Avenue crossing there will presumably be a need for discussion about these plans.
Only 4 acres of the land would be used for outdoor activity if planning permission is given. The land is used by H Langley and not owned by him. It is owned by a Trust.
What a shame that Ms. Redgrift failed to declare an interest in this application. She is of course a signatory to the application and is either an owner or tenant as per Certificate B of the Town and Country Planning [etc] order. Try a bit of honesty please!
I see there is no mention of the 4×4’s that will be roaring up and down the 4 acres. It doesn’t matter who owns the land, but who lives by it and has to suffer with all the noise and extra traffic pollution.
The area for 4x4s area looks quite small AND I doubt they would be ROARING about on such a small bit of potentially very water logged land. Also recreational 4x4ing is not about speeding about, if you go on the Knowlsey 4×4 website you will see their likely intentions, and here is a YouTube video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlAz3MhW-4o#t=11
Much better to Google KNOWSLEY 4X4 REVIEWS and see what the public think about this so-called benign activity!
The 4×4 will be for training ect, not pay and play. Has anyone read the plans?
Yes! I read the plans, the 4x4s are for stag parties, youth groups extra and the quad bikes are for training (probably for the SAS) .
4×4 and quad bikes will be for training councils, search and rescue teams, emergency services etc. I don’t think stag parties will want to pay £600 per person for a rospa course. Even the non rospa training is under instruction. Unlike most others I have acctully had the sense to ask questions to people that know. Not just speculated on here.
Perhaps “Peter” will share with us “the people that know”.
I would just refer him to my comments of 15th November and invite him to read the REALITY of what is intended, not some fantasy.
All well and good I like the idea but if we refer to
http://www.hoylakejunction.com/crossing-the-line-another-level-crossing-could-close
They’d have fun trying to get access to the site by car or by foot if they close these crossings.
Indeed Network Rail’s intentions of closing Sandringham Avenue rail crossing would scupper the proposed vehicular access/exit to/from this site. But perhaps this scheme could help with securing alternative routes to the land, bringing more pressure on Network Rail to come up with alternative routes, which could help the Allotment Society who otherwise are likely to be severely affected by the closing of Sandringham Avenue rail crossing.
Hi.
They are talking about having vehicle access the other side but down a residential street (can’t remember the name sorry) but the people who live on that street have already had Ballards put up so I doubt they will want vans driving down delivering to the allotments etc. I believe it was the old railway cottages.
I am wondering why they are looking to shut it after spending £40.000 on one of them.
I suppose Time will tell.
Kind regards
Hi Marty, I think you are referring to Procter Road, I agree with you, it’s a nice quiet road and it will be a shame if they open it up again as the residents fought hard to close it. Which crossing has had £40,000 spent on it?
I am not sure of the name sorry, I am away at the moment working and my mind is a blank. It’s the road with the school on it, it now has electric gates and a phone. You press a button to open the gates then use the phone to ask for permission to cross. I will find the website and post the link.
Your YouTube clip has the sound muted and and a nice calming tune playing. Listen to this one http://youtu.be/8b6BKIT7XvA and imagine that in your back yard from 8.30 in the morning till 6pm, 7 days a week. I think the Allotment Society would be more upset with the noise from the 4×4’s and paintball’s than having to go a different way to their allotment.
Slightly off-topic, but bear with me…
If people want to experience the proposed extra noise and congestion in and around the allotments, along with the consequently dreadful effect on life for people living there, try spending an hour in Elm Grove while the dance school is open in the evening.
It is absolutely horrendous. Not the school’s fault, per se, but very definitely the lazy parents who refuse to use the school’s car park – or indeed any other nearby car parks – and instead use our cul de sac like a 19-point-turn training school for the incapable drivers of 4x4s.
Elm Grove still has the level crossing close to this proposed development, too, so one can only imagine things are going to get much, much worse.
But please – if you are a parent of a child at HSoD, don’t think “I’m only here for ten minutes” – because times that by scores throughout the day and you end up with what we’ve got already: Absolute chaos.
If god forbid one of those children gets hit by one of these cars, which seems to me to be an inevitability, you’ll only have yourselves to blame.
That YouTube video has the sound muted, this is more like it http://youtu.be/8b6BKIT7XvA imagine that outside your back yard 8:30 am till 6 pm , 7 days a week . The Allotment Society would have to put up with that as well as my neighbours and myself , no thank you.
What a shame to ruin peaceful greenbelt farming land with revving engines and shouting stag parties. I thought we were trying to preserve the countryside for future generations but I guess the quick buck wins out as per… Can’t think of a place on the Wirral with worse access! Half a mile of single track unmade road through the middle of a school and over an unmanned level crossing. The turn in on the main road is lethal with cars parked either side obscuring the pedestrians, if you’ve ever used to road you’ll know how dangerous it is.. Ideal for an extra 12 or more vehicles a day driven by unfamiliar members of the public!!
[EDIT: removed] how can it cause more noise than the bloody rail network? [EDIT: removed]
Well as long as they promise to make no more noise than a train half a kilometre away and only for 10 seconds every quarter of an hour!!
p.s. the railway’s been there since 1863. I think it’s a bit late to object!!!
Has anyone read the reviews on “knowsley 4×4,” the same company who wants to destroy our green fields with their leaking vehicles they also have pistol shooting and lots of other very loud activities that will chase away all our wild life and ruin the peace and tranquillity of our lovely village!
I think you will find they are air pistols! no noise! If you look at the planning there has been a ecological survey to show no wildlife will be affected!
I hope the Barn Owls, Tawny Owls, bats, rare birds and all the other species have read the ecological survey, so they can be reassured.
As the old saying goes, “A little learning is a dangerous thing”!
Wirral Wildlife group of the Cheshire Wildlife Trust has objected to this proposal, citing The Habitats and 2010 and The Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 and listing a comprehensive array of widlife that would be adversely affected.
Look at the reviews to see that a rifle is quoted in addition to the air rifles!
No firearm except a air rifle could be used due to not meeting the 1Km fall out!
I would think it would be more than that. A .22LR round can go up to a mile!
Springer Air rifles aren’t exactly silent if they’re over your back fence though.
I assure you it will be. 22 or 177 air rifles there is no chance what so ever any licensed fire arm could be used on that land except a shotgun by the land owner for vermin control. I am undecided about this site but I am just stating facts to try and stop the Chinese whispers.
that’s what i said, you would need a clear mile behind any firearm rifles so it’s not going to happen there. but a springer .22 air rifle makes as much noise as a moderated .22LR rifle anyways
Yes knowsley 4×4 reviews make very interesting reading one star out of five because they couldn’t give none.
Hi and good morning as a professional outdoor education instructor of 17 years and a wirral resident the preposed centre can do nothing but bring the local community and surrounding areas work fun and enjoyment of the outdoors in a controlled and managed enviroment run by professionals of 11 years exprince . After much research into 4×4 and paintball both as a spectator and a participant the noise levels are minium and as for 4×4 tearing up the roads and roaring about the site this is another urban myth as 4×4 driving is about skill precision timing and poise not speed as most do a max of 10 mph off road . If anyone would like more infomatiin or to question me further please dont hesitate to contact me kind regards paul dillon.
I think the 71 objections registered to date against the application seem to put you in the minority Paul.
As a professional outdoor education instructor I would imagine you know that the wheel speed of the 4×4 is irrelevant, a 2.5l Turbo Diesel engine doing 4500 revs makes the same noise in 1st or 5th.
I’ve owned landrovers all my life and have done more than my share of greenlaning and off road trialling so speak from a position of experience. If you think total novices, down a muddy hole in a rusty old Disco will be displaying ‘skill, precision, timing an poise’ then i’d challenge how much research you’ve truly done
I’m not sure you appreciate how peaceful the area is. On a calm summer’s day you can hear people talking 5 or 6 fields away. Now imagine beered up stag parties shouting and running round shooting each other, engines revving for hours at a time. If the noise levels will be ‘minimum’ as you say, why don’t we impose a noise limit. I think no louder than the current ambient seems emminently fair, after all why should anyone elses enjoyment of their property, garden, allotment etc. be spoiled for one persons proft? We can take a few average dB measurements at the property boundaries and make it a planning condition that the activities are never louder than the birdsong or the wind in the trees.
That’s noise sorted, just the other 6 valid reasons for the application to be rejected to tackle now..
It’s just completely the wrong location, the access, the close proximity of other properties, the well documented and verifiable rare wildlife habitats etc. etc. There must be 50 more suitable places on the Wirral, out in the middle of the fields, miles from anyone and with a normal road to access them.
I can’t comment on all your post but I would like to agree with Paul on the 4×4 issue, I travel the world teaching 4×4 adverse conditions driving. 2nd gear low range at 1500 rpm in a discovery is all that’s needed, any more and you will spin your wheels and dig in, I think people are forgetting it’s going to be 4×4 instruction not bring your car and get it stuck
I’d refer you to ‘ If you think total novices, down a muddy hole in a rusty old Disco will be displaying ‘skill, precision, timing an poise’ then i’d challenge how much research you’ve truly done’ but even accepting what you say, 1500rpm from a 200tdi, louder or quieter than the common sparrow?
Depends how close the sparrow is I suppose. And if I may reiterate the people will be with a instructor learning how to drive properly so not looking for the nearest hole to get stuck down. The idea is a course is designed to not get stuck. What research are you referring to? I am speaking from many years of experience including being a rospa and I.A.M advanced offroad driving iinstructor. I understand peoples concerns about things moving into town but think most of them need not be a concern. I actually made the effort to go to the open day among a few others who left happy after finding out any activity will be half a kilometre the other side of the train tracks. I also heard a paintball gun being fired from the site and could not hear it from the warehouse building near the tracks. I also found out the paintballs are non toxic. The only guns that are used are low powered air rifles that make next to no noise. They were acctully drowned out by a football match. Not to mention how much they have tidied up the site that was full of rubbish.
Apologys for any mistakes I am using my phone to type.
Hey Marty, I live half a kilometre the other side of the track!!! So in my back yard! Please don’t tell me quad bikes and diggers are also quiet because I own both!! What about all the shouting and screaming that is bound to go on? Football matches don’t go on all day ! Are you hoping for a job or are you just a mate of Terry’s
I see there has been no mention of the GPS Treasure Hunts (on quad bikes), Quad Trailer Reversing, . Digger Driving as well as the 4x4s and several other noisy activities to be enjoyed by stag weekends etc. Anyone in their right mind would tell you this is going to be very noisy and destructive to the land, I cannot believe people are actually arguing that it will not be loud and disruptive and ruin the peace and quiet of our village. Do they think we are all idiots! If you look at the planning application and click on ” Documents” scroll down to ” photographs” and you will see exactly what they are planning to do. They are moving the whole kit and caboodle to Hoylake and closing down their place in knowsley so if they get planning permission it will be a lot bigger than they are letting on….DO NOT BE FOOLED!
cant believe they’re already advertising it, bit cocky! that’s not a knowlsey 4×4 brochure it’s a Hoylake activity centre brochure! no planning permission and they’re already advertising the quad bikes and diggers that arent even mentioned in the planning application!!!!!!! never mind the horses and teh allotments, they’ll be ruining peoples sunday afternoons in walker street with all those going……. wonder why they’re leaving a 100 acre site in knowlsey to move to a 4 acre site over an unmanned level crossing. maybe something to do with the 1 star reviews?
Hi John,
Can you let us know where they advertised this as a Hoylake site as this could be a matter for the Planning Committee.
Thanks
The planning documentation is at:
http://www.wirral.gov.uk/planning/DC/AcolNetCGI.gov?ACTION=UNWRAP&RIPNAME=Root.PgeResultDetail&TheSystemkey=92100
If they’ve advertised the proposed business ahead of receiving permission I don’t know where those adverts where.
http://www.wirral.gov.uk/planning/DC/AcolNetCGI.gov?ACTION=UNWRAP&RIPNAME=Root.PgeResultDetail&TheSystemkey=92100
Click on ” Documents” then scroll down to ” Pictures” it’s a brochure describing all the activities that will be going on, lots not mentioned in the planning application!!!
http://www.wirral.gov.uk/planning/DC/AcolNetCGI.gov?ACTION=UNWRAP&RIPNAME=Root.PgeResultDetail&TheSystemkey=92100
Sorry !! should have said click on “Documents” then scroll down to “PHOTOGRAPHS”
The idea of a 4×4 track is my worst nightmare in green fields that will be destroyed by pollution from leaking trucks. I don’t think it will be fun for the surrounding neighbours when the whole idea of (off roading) is to get stuck in the mud and then have your engine revving up to get out! You don’t have to race round a track to have engines roaring!! I don’t think the neighbours horses will find it fun either, especially when 5 year olds are having riding lessons! And with quad bikes running up and down the site. The whole object is to have an adrenaline packed day. So I couldn’t imagine driving carefully around in a straight even circle at 10 miles an hour much fun, and if that was the case then why would you need a 4×4 you could just use Micras?
You are NOT wanted in Hoylake so go and play in your own back yard.
quiet and calming this paintball thing!!!
http://youtu.be/PvWjA7kR6qM
that’ll be lovely for the guys and girls at the allotments
There’s no firearms or shotguns, just air rifles and pistols. It’s to hard to get a licence for proper rifles and best not to trust the stags with an AK47!
I only hope and pray that someone shows some sense in turning down this application. There are surely many other sites with more space, less neighbours, better access for traffic and pedestrians…… I could go on. As a resident in the vicinity of the proposed development I’m interested in the outcome of this application! I wonder what the parents and staff of Kingsmead school think of this application too? Their pupils use the access road, as a parent I would be worried.
You lot need to wind your knecks in, Terry and Paul are just trying to make a living , so what if it’s a bit noisy or a barn owl gets upset! What a pile of NIMBYs. This will provide fun for hundreds of people acros merseyside and your fussing about some more cars driving passed your house or a few lads shouting in a field. Get some perspective eyh! I for one can’t wait
Well said, couldn’t of said it better myself. Some people just have nothing better to do and have a illusion that they live in a quiet little village when near the center is nothing but a road full of take aways and petrol stations. The actual site is half a kilometre away from the rail tracks. I will certainly see you there for a paintball game or two 🙂
John A, I think it is YOU that needs to wind your neck in , Terry and Paul might be only trying to make a living but at our expense! When we come home from making a living we want to relax and enjoy our gardens and not listen to all the screaming and shouting and general mayhem coming from next door!! Have you read their reviews ? People are saying it is rubbish and should be closed down as it is unsafe!!!! Also I think you might have a very long wait, as it is VERY UNLIKELY TO GET PERMISSION.
Anon i am getting quite sick of your false comments and gibberish facts. You dont have a clue what your talking about. [EDIT: text removed]. For one the area where the business will be set up is far away enough from your house , you wont hear a thing. Are you forgetting you have a rail line closer to you that runs all day and night ? Are you that silly that you have just said you work in the day – therefore when you get home the business will have finished its days work. Just get your facts wright and honestly for everyone’s sake be quiet.
Anon i am getting quite fed up of your invalid comments [EDIT: text removed]
This whole debate is just Anon Vs the world. Are you forgetting by the time you get home from work the business will be finished its days work ? [EDIT: text removed]
Tom and Isaac Burns, How do you know where I live? The trains run every 15 minutes for 10 seconds!! Most people work Monday to Friday and like to spend the weekend relaxing which will be the busiest time for Hoylake 4×4 as you well know…and you call me silly!!! And Isaac, I think you will find it’s not just me against the world, it’s me and 70 others that wrote letters of objection not to mention the petition! Everyone’s entitled to their say and just because it’s not what you would like to hear there is no need to be rude! Merry Christmas!
Don’t forget the 170 person petition against the development! Yes… just anon vs the world!!
The letter sent to the concerned parties states most of the business will be at weekends and the railway line is most definately further away and less noisy than either the paintballing or the 4×4 driving. Plus it has been there for 150 years so i assume anyone who has bought a house anywhere near was aware of it before the purchase went through! Just watch the videos already posted in this thread if you need a gentle reminder of these calm and quiet activities!
It strikes me that there are a number of people writing into this thread who have or want to have a pecuniary interest in this development and I just wish they could be honest about it.
It is likely that the majority of users of this type of activity are immature and unlikely to be well controlled at anything they do but will be quite happy or even welcoming the chance to disrupt the lives of hundreds of people.
Listen, I have been In the modelling industry for 8 years now. And NEVER have I experienced cattiness like this before! Just let them get on with it.
http://www.wirral.gov.uk/planning/DC/AcolNetCGI.gov?ACTION=UNWRAP&RIPNAME=Root.PgeResultdetail&TheSystemkey=92100
Decision: Refuse
Oh dear, never mind….
I am very pleased that planning permission has been refused. As John pointed out I had an interest in the land. I am actually one of four trustees and I never said I wanted the activity to go ahead. I only pointed out that 4 acres was going to be used. The location was wrong. It would have been too dangerous with all those people going over the railway line. Was that honest enough for you John?