Following the news that Elm Grove level crossing could be closed a private meeting was held last Monday between Network Rail and invited residents.
My understanding is that Network Rail is also looking to close the level crossing at Sandringham Avenue as well as the crossing at Elm Grove. The Sandringham Avenue crossing is popular as it gives access to Hoylake Allotments and is used by pedestrians and motorists (who have to use the phone provided to contact Merseyrail to check that it is okay to cross). The proposal from Network Rail is to close the two level crossings and construct a new footbridge over the railway line at [edit: Melrose Avenue]. Further it is proposed that a new road from the end of Proctor Road will allow access to the cottages in Harrington Avenue opposite Manor Road Station. Network Rail has said that the existing footbridge at the station cannot be used for public access because the station is closed during the night.
There are several parties affected by these proposals including:
- Harrington Avenue and Proctor Road residents
- Hoylake Rugby Club
- Holy Trinity School (who use playing fields over the line)
- Hoylake Allotments
Did you know that bin lorries don’t visit the Harrington Avenue properties? A van is used to collect household rubbish and recycling from the cottages.
I haven’t heard, but I wonder if the foot crossing that allows you to cross the line from the Cinder Path to get on to Meols Drive is also being considered for closure?
Anything to add/correct? Feel free to comment…
Thanks for this updated post especially about teh possibility that Melrose crossing may also close.
I would wish to point out there there are at least 2 other users of Melrose crossing, Hoylake Central Bowling Club and Melrose Ladies BC. These clubs, during the season, play league/cup matches on the green 4 evenings and 2 or 3 afternoons. In addition there are also internal/external competitions that are run on the green. The green is also open in the closed season depending upon weather. Total membership of these clubs is about 75 people.
If there are any more meetings regarding these suggested changes then, as Treasurer of HCBC, I can say we would wish to be involved and I feel sure that the same can be said of Melrose Ladies.
I attended the meeting as I gave the use of Melrose Hall for it.
The meeting was purely to meet and discuss the closure of Elm Grove Crossing with the Residents of Harrington Avenue, who are most affected, and a rep from the Allotments, the Headteacher of Holy Trinity and a couple of other people who may use the ELM GROVE crossing.
It is the highest risk on the LNW Line which has 779 crossings and Harrington is 6th and Melrose 15th.
A working party has been set up to look at the DRAFT proposals and check the viability of other ideas.
Harrington will be closed but Melrose will have a pedestrian only bridge, but this is subject to discussion also, before it goes to consultation, due to buggies crossing and people who would have difficulty with steps.
The Help Shop will have information as it becomes available.
It is going to take time but has to happen unfortunately.
Thanks for the update Jackie. I think now we can rest assured that everyone’s points will be well represented in any discussions based upon the DRAFT proposals.
Please let me know when the next meeting is if you would be so kind.
My mother Jean Wilson was killed at the Sandringham crossing almost 6 years ago. The train was travelling from West Kirby and failed to stop at Manor Road station. This did not happen often and no doubt she thought the train was stopping and she would have had time to cross the line. I had been at Manor Road station that morning and the same thing happened, passengers thought the train from West Kirby was going to stop but it went through the station so fast that the platform shook. If there had been better safety checks at the crossing my mum would no doubt have been alive today so I for one am glad the crossing might close and will prevent this happening to anyone else. I think about my mum everyday and what happened to her.
Hello Dianne – I remember your lovely Mum and your Dad Brian very well, as well as you and your sister. We lived at 11 Hazel Road, 2 doors from you with Sammy Ashton at number 13 between us.. Your Mum and Dad’s grave is beautifully cared for in the churchyard, I often spare a kind though when I visit my own Mum and Dad there. Fond memories and best wishes. John & Mike Parr
Hi John just seeing this message today. Thank you for your kind words. I remember you and Mike well from No. 11. A long time ago now. The only one left from that time is Miss Chappie at No. 7. She will be 90 this year. Take care and thank you again.
It’s a shame that even though I highlighted the 2 Crown Green Bowling Clubs that play on the green next to the Rugby Club at the east end of Proctor Road we have not been included in the list of affected associations in the post today. Hopefully we will be consulted as any proposed new road from Proctor Road to the Harrington Avenue Cottages will affect us quite a lot (potentially).
These two clubs have home matches throughout the season on about 2 afternoons and 3 or 4 evenings every week plus competitions. Members and victors will be affected by any changes that may be proposed.
I hope that whoever is responsible for organising any meetings will bear my comments in mind.
I also wonder if there are any other organisations/companies/individuals who will be affected who have not been included in the list?
Once again the residents of the Carr lane Estate have been ignored, regarding being effected by access to the ‘other side of the lines’. For too long delays to vehicular access at the Hoylake station have placed the Residents of this Estate at risk, particularly when access for Emergency vehicles is delayed and the need for emergency access to Hospitals from the estate are concerned.
It really is time for the Council and Merseyrail to appreciate that this estate is not just an Industrial estate and recognise the needs, safety and welfare of it’s Residents.
By all means identify risk issues with rail crossings, consult and agree reasonable alternatives with those effected, but do not ignore ( except at The Open, of course when changes can be made regarding Hoylake station crossing) all the Residents of those ‘forgotten people across the lines.
Referring to “Once again the residents of the Carr lane Estate have been ignored, regarding being effected by access to the ‘other side of the lines’.” Apparently the crossing at Elm Grove to Harrington Ave is private and Network rail said (in the Melrose hall meeting) that they are obligated to give residents of Harrington Ave and the football club access and that all others who use the crossing are trespassing, however since they cannot monitor who goes over and where they go they cannot prosecute. If you look on the gate there is a pitiful small sign stating that it is a private crossing (not 100% sure)
They (network rail) informed the people at meeting that they “expect” people around the Carr Lane area (and non residents of Harrington Ave and/or who want to cross using these crossing they’re closing) to use Hoylake level crossing because they are connected to a road, they also informed us that Melrose crossing will not be shut because it’s used for engineering work access, this also links in to the crossing being private and that the people who use it are trespassing too, again they cannot monitor this.
So in all fairness people tend to choose the quickest routes to where they want to go, its human nature whether they know they’re trespassing or not they have not been forgotten Network rails excuse of leaving the Indst Estate out is because they have road access that leads easily to Hoylakes level crossing. So unfortunately Carr Lane was never forgotten Network Rail didn’t even bother considering it. BUT I completely understand what you mean, because they didn’t even mention it and yet a lot of the children from that road use the crossings to go to school. (whether they’re meant to or not) And yes the traffic at times is just unbelievable around that level crossing, massive lorries and vans all day its not safe, but there’s nothing Network rail are doing other than pushing more traffic that way by closing the other crossings.
As for the residents of Harrington Ave they’re expected to let their crossing close and use a foot bridge, bearing in mind that two of the residence in Harrington are disabled and have trouble with stairs (one of which has to use a motorized wheelchair for the rest of their life), and Proctor road fought for a good while to close the end of the road off, which Network rail are just going to reopen up to create access, however they lack the common sense to listen what the residents of Hoylake are saying, that all this open access and long traveling distances and lack of care for people with disabilities will just create problems in the future, drops in housing prices if people want to resell, the actual access for the people with disabilities, the unwanted attention towards the football fields during the night by youths (which has been a problem in the past but has not been as bad since Proctor has been closed off),
Personally Network Rail are going about this the wrong way, they think they’re going to be doing good but, they’re just going to create more problems.
Can someone explain that if the sandringham Avenue crossing is closed, how are people going to access the allotments and the playing field that Holy Trinity School uses for its sports day and that the children play on during weekends. As far as I am aware there is no other access to the field or the allotments part from Sandringham Avenue, the pathway is closed from Harrington Avenue,
You can’t drive a car to the allotments from the Carr Lane Estate, most people use Harrington Avenue /Melrose crossings because its a quicker access into Hoylake,
What Network Rail is proposing is going to cause more problems they need to do a rethink. roundabout
They are in talks with Holy Trinity about creating an accessible bridge (nothing is set in stone just an idea that was suggested) leading from the school straight on to the playing fields and they are talking about creating road for access to the allotments using hoylake level crossing going to where the rugby pitches are and round the back of them, or something along those line. It’s all future plans with network rail and they are making sure that if they close crossing people will have access, even though they won’t be solving the problem just making it more difficult for everyone to access these places.
They seem to be catering to the business side of hoylake, such as the rugby club, football pitches, allotments, holy trinity and the bowling green, they seem to be ignoring the residents and pushing them in with everyone else rather than listening to their say.
The problem (as Network Rail see it) is safety.
I am a bit baffled by the assertion that they ‘seem to be catering to the business side of Hoylake’. The allotment association is run by a group of volunteers and all excess funds are used to improve the site. Unlike any business that I know of. As far as I am aware, a LEA primary school is not a business and I would assume that the other organisations mentioned are run by volunteers.
Network Rail have not yet made a decision about the Sandringham Avenue crossing. The playing field has not been used by the children of Holy Trinity primary for their Sports Day for many years. I believe this decision was made for Health and Safety reasons – both the danger of crossing the railway line and the danger to children’s health from the dog fouling on the field.
I used the term business to describe them I know they’re not businesses as such I should have used different terminology, yes their key focus is safety and they go on about reports and figures on the facts. They mentioned that train drivers make many reports about safety concerning these particular crossing (Melrose, Harrington AND Sandringham). However many people live close to these crossings and they see very little of these ‘incidents’.
Network rail have no reason to keep Sandringham open, they are wanting to close that too. What I don’t understand is that between Manor Road and Meols there are many little foot crossings, will they be shut too?
They are trying to make the crossings safer but really they should focus on the crossings themselves rather than remove them, i’m sure up and down the country there are crossings of a very similar nature and usage, they should look at the cross and look to improve them e.g. removing foliage so people can see down the track instead of cautiously sticking their heads out. They claim there are CCTV cameras around the crossings but if you look you won’t really find any, they installed on a few months ago to monitor the amount of times its used but not seen a camera since.
Rob Parker writes:
I fully agree with Pmorton (above) that the focus from BR doesn’t appear to consider any changes that would benefit those living and using the properties ‘across the lines’, while public safety is a major priority, actions taken should always take into consideraton the wellbeing and lifestyles of the same public.
I am irritated by the repeated reference to Holy Trinity School’s ‘use’ of the crossing at Elm Grove. The school in fact only uses it once yearly (sports day), and then only if the weather allows. As a resident of Harrington Avenue, i personally use the crossing everyday, sometimes three times in one day. So, including use by other family members (also residents), together we must have an average useage of maybe two THOUSAND times annually, and yet apparently the residents are to be given no special consideration over ‘recreational ‘ users.
In response to the comment by the poster above, that NR “think they are going to be doing good”. Let us not be naiive. NETWORK RAIL DON’T GIVE A DAMN. THEY DON’T CARE ABOUT PUBLIC SAFETY REALLY. THEY CARE ABOUT BEING SEEN TO CARE. It’s about their public image, and promoting themselves as caring. It’s about not having liability for safety of crossings. It about saving money long term on the upkeep of these crossings. It’s about not having to compensate nervy drivers who claim money and time off work just because they thought they might have to lift their foot to the brake. Did you know that if a train is at Manor Rd station (heading for West Kirby) and someone is crossing at Elm Grove, the driver logs it as an ‘incident’. The whole issue is about MONEY and PUBLIC LIABILITY, NOT servicing the needs of individuals beyond their legal obligations.
Suffice to say that Network Rail’s aim is to close All pedestrian and unmanned crossings in the near future. This is happening up and down the country as we speak. Unfortunately, we are not a ‘special case’, and there seems very little we CAN do in the face of what Network Rail WILL do.
They have the money!
They have the power!
They have the excuse, (safety).
They have government on their side.
“I am irritated by the repeated reference to Holy Trinity School’s ‘use’ of the crossing at Elm Grove.” That statement is understandable but they “use” Sandringham crossing for sports day, which they stated at the meeting HOWEVER they haven’t done for a while due to the whole using the phone and having to escort 250+ children across the track UNLESS you mean about the children and parents crossing to go to school in the morning and afternoons.
“It’s about not having to compensate nervy drivers who claim money and time off work just because they thought they might have to lift their foot to the brake. Did you know that if a train is at Manor Rd station (heading for West Kirby) and someone is crossing at Elm Grove, the driver logs it as an ‘incident’.” I’d hate to disagree with you here, because i’ve crossed many times while a train was stationed at manor road, however if we (who cross weren’t to know) that a depo train was to be passing through manor road and was to hit the person crossing causing death, would cause of an “incident” It’s the same reason why the automated Hoylake crossing has a two minuet timer to close the barriers before a train comes into Hoylake station, in case a car crosses and gets caught out, we (who cross at a crossing) are MEANT to wait for the train to pass before crossing for “safety reasons”, YES I know its easier just to cross over, because if the orange lights are on at the side of the carriages mean their doors are open (meaning the train won’t move) means we have time to cross. But Network rail are looking for any excuse so if there is a train headed for west kirby from manor road, your best bet is to wait for it to pass because they DO have the right to call it as an incident, due to the amount of time they are stationed there for and the speed they may leave the station. (Its a bit like crossing the road you see the gap to cross but really you use the lights and press the button etc).
I support your argument about they have money, power etc, but Network Rail can do as they please there is no stopping them, crushing our lively hoods as they wish.
Even with a bridge meaning “easy access” to where we’re going, also mean easy access to throw things on to the track off this new bridge they’re imposing causing nothing but havoc, we’ve (the public residents) have no say to me, the whole “meetings” is to make us feel apart of this change that will happen no matter what anyone says.
To reiterate – Holy Trinity Primary School DO NOT use the Sandringham Avenue crossing NOR the Sandringham Avenue playing field. When asked, the LEA said they did not wish to use that field because of the health risks to children from dog fouling.
Network Rail is closing vast numbers of crossings because of the number of deaths across the UK.
On the West Kirby line there appears to be a problem of trains without passengers travelling faster than timetabled services.
From memory such trains may be travelling at twice the speed and therefore halving the time to cross. safely.
Again from memory it used to be possible to access the football fields and allotments past No 12 Harrington Avenue,
If this was restored and extended parallel to Manor Road station the Sandringham Avenue crossing could be developed in a safe manner.
By installing road type crossing equipment pedestrians could cross the railway line when clear to do so. Trains would be signalled to halt as is a car is at the traffic lights opposite the library on Market Street..
There is scope for trains in both directions to take priority given their proximity to Manor Road station. Trains which sit at West Kirby can be timetabled to and from Bidston to allow any extra time for movements over the crossing.
I think that they should have magnetic gates that lock when trains are close by. But I don’t think they would want to pay for anything think they just want to close all the crossings.